Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-26871105-20161018053221/@comment-26871067-20161020055344

This is honestly exactly what I wanted for the most part, and it was the whole goal of what I compiled. I feel like maybe this was misunderstood by some other wiki users, so I want to get that out in the open as plainly as possible: I'm not saying "say Alluka is female on her page". My main point of contention, besides indications from the narrative's structure, has been that Alluka's personal pronoun is an assertion of femininity and therefore it is most accurate to use female pronouns in reflection of that. I'm not even arguing "put down that Alluka is Definitively A Girl" or anything like that. The gender discrepencies seen across the series in regards to Alluka are important, because they are confusing to fans. The inconsistencies need to still be documented.

I agree with what MrGenial1 has said in some other places, which is essentially "we should change the pronouns to female ones, note the discrepancies between how characters refer to her and indications that she's amab*, but avoid doing something like stating a gender or sex in infoboxes. I don't believe the gender ambiguity section really needs modification - it already states that Killua's perspective is most likely to be correct, and that the perspective of the other Zoldycks is regularly misinformed and rooted in their dehumanizing attitude towards Alluka.

I really respect that you admitted to not being as informed on the matter, and I want to seriously thank you for the maturity necessary to do something like that. I feel like a lot of people have considered parts of my document to be attacks on them for misunderstanding the source material. I understand why they might get that impression. Text isn't a fantastic medium for conveying intent.

I feel like you got the message that I was actually trying to send: the English translations of the series, particularly unofficial scanlations, give a markedly different spin on the whole thing, and as a result I was trying to correct misconceptions not just about Alluka. Slightly off topic, I feel there are some other misconceptions that an explanation of the original Japanese might help clear up - not just things that translations offered - and I intend to work on that in the future.

*I understand that transgender issues are, while much more known than they were even a year ago, not something that most people are very informed on. For the most part, it's new information for loads of people, and I don't expect everyone to be on the same level of awareness. So I just want to explain that "amab" stands for "assigned male at birth", and I'm only using it as shorthand there - I don't expect the acronym to be used here. But there's some disagreement as to whether or not it's acceptable to refer to a transgender girl as having a "male sex", so I think what's stated there should be carefully worded in the interest of respectful language.

I don't think a person is their actions, especially when it comes to things that are only recently coming into the public eye. People just don't know things yet, and that's not their fault. I think that the best choice here is to use the most respectful language possible towards the transgender community. Other users are free to disagree - I think the best approach on it is to take a survey or a vote on the general opinion for that. I can't speak for the whole trans community and I don't want to act like I can, but I can definitely offer my own opinions and reasoning behind them.

In the event that Alluka's pronouns are changed to female ones for the reasons I've put forward, I'd like to offer a potential write-up for what to say on the matter of Alluka's sex and gender discrepency (to be placed in the gender ambiguity section): "Alluka is strongly implied to have been assigned male, as she is considered by many characters to be Killua's younger brother. However, she herself and Killua indicate that she is transgender and does not identify as male. The wiki has chosen to use female pronouns, as it is the most accurate reflection of Alluka's own personal pronoun and apparent preferences." If the change is implemented, I'm probably going to copy/paste this particular paragraph into the relevant thread.

I also think it might be a good idea to rename the section to "Gender discrepencies" as I feel it's a name that more accurately conveys what's being documented. I feel Pitou is gender-ambiguous, because of the lack of gendering entirely, but Alluka is gendered explicitly by multiple characters - it's just that these characters don't agree. I don't think it's a big enough issue to push - I'm sure other users have a different perspective on what the term "gender ambiguity" entails, and they're legitimate.

I'm honestly really glad for how civil your response was and I want to thank you again for that. The tone in the other thread has, from basically the very beginning, been markedly flippant, heated, and rude on both sides to the point of basically mud-slinging. I'm complicit in this - though I know it's because I got swept up in the atmosphere of the thread, it's no excuse for losing my cool. I honestly think it might be a good idea to close that thread for good and remain in one with a calmer atmosphere, but that's something to discuss with the admins I suppose.