Inferred Nen type
I made the fateful blog, I'd like to hear your opinion: http://hunterxhunter.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Martialmaniac/Inferred_Nen_Type Martialmaniac (talk) 23:34, June 19, 2016 (UTC)
You're overreacting and acting like a child, tattling to higher powers in an attempt to punish someone outside your peer group. I've read all of OPN's posts and the most "offensive" piece of language he's used is "my nigga" and "tranny", in one instance and in a context with no animosity present whatsoever; other than that, he's said nothing remotely transphobic to you or anyone else. If you were referring to the video he linked, he had no control over what the video was called and he is not responsible for what the creator chooses to upload; as such, please do not be so petty as to project another person's language onto him. He did not simply insult you for no apparent reason, he was either giving his input on the matter at hand(so yes, he was discussing the topic of the debate) or arguing against gender identities that have no basis in science.
He did not lock Alluka's page for no apparent reason, he was stopping people(not you, necessarily) from prematurely changing her pronouns after you insulted him and attempted to vote on the matter without consulting an admin first(or at least an admin that is actually active).
Despite this, however, you seem to think that if someone uses language you deem to be "inappropriate" or "rude", this somehow discredits any arguments they are trying to convey in the process. Worse than this, you were so thin skinned that you reported him to the wiki staff because of this, I assume to try and have him removed from his position because you either disagree with his opinion or you don't like the way he said it. It is immature, childish and petty, and something I would expect from the trolls who told us to kill ourselves, not someone who actually presented evidence in support of their views. Pigzillion (talk) 21:08, September 30, 2016 (UTC)
How exactly? From what I have read, the only thing he came close to breaking was the following; "Post or transmit any content that is obscene, pornographic, abusive, offensive, profane, or otherwise violates any law or right of any third party, or content that contains homophobia, ethnic slurs, religious intolerance, or encourages criminal conduct". Other than a few "offensive" words which were completely free of animosity in context, OPN did break any of those rules. Moreover, you showed clear disdain towards OPN before he even got involved in the argument, for completely irrational reasons mind you(Transsexuality is binary, therefore you can't be transphobic to someone who identifies as non-binary), and even went as far as to try to completely invalidate his opinion. Yet you're trying to say that your report was unbiased?
You reported him before or after he said he would "respect your feelings" and "not use... slurs in this or any other topic relating to Alluka" ? Pigzillion (talk) 23:53, September 30, 2016 (UTC)
RE:Request for consultation
Ok so I've read over what you've posted on Dark and Genial's page and for the most part I've tried to stay up to date with what's currently happening now in Alluka's thread.
Now I'd say yes OPN was childish and perhaps vulgar, but if you've seen OPN in action in other topics and threads on here you'd know that nearly 100% his vulgarity is sarcastic, however in respect of your feelings, I can to an extent understand why you and perhaps anyone else who was offended by his choice of words. I say "to an extent" as in I seriously fully can't understand, because I as in myself am not a Transsexual person, so I can't say that I can fully understand/comprehend how you felt when OPN used some let's call them "Choice Words". But I can say that I can understand being called words that can really hurt your feelings and how you emotionally feel from them.
As for OPN locking Alluka's page, I really can't offer much of an opinion. I mean it seems most likely that he did it, because he doesn't want anyone to change any of the pronouns on Alluka's page, because the current pronouns are the ones that have been decided by the one of the Mods while the rest and a majority of the users on this wikia follow suit. Though personally I don't want to rule out that there were any other possibilities on why he locked Alluka's page. Call me ignorant to the facts, because that's the most logical conclusion, but I'm not going to say that fact is a definite one, unless OPN confirms it himself. And if it is, well I guess he felt like using that jurisdiction as being a moderator, feeling it was for the better, worse, indifferent, a combination of the 3, or something else entirely. As for what other possibilities could OPN have locked the page for, I don't have a clue. However that's just me going with a feeling, since I find that not all things we think/persevere/etc. is exactly what we interpret said "thing" is, even when it's clear as day on why it's "so and so". Contradictions can arise and details can be explained more thoroughly... hopefully.
So I hope I made some sense and that you weren't offended by my thoughts/opinions, but if you were I apologize in advance. Also hope that any other problems you're facing, including Alluka's is resolved if be it applicable/acceptable to both sides.
Re: this nonsense
First let me offer my sympathies seeing as you've stumbled across the more obstinate side of this wiki's userbase, try not to pull your hair out.
Regarding everything else, more power to you for speaking up and taking action, locking of the page seemed hasty and crass. I'm sure this and the crap spouted in the thread were more of a defensive action since you might've been seen as a threat against this wiki's status quo circlejerk instead of anything intentionally hateful, but I'd support your response nonetheless.
Now the actual argument about Alluka will be an uphill battle because very few people here actually know what they're talking about, not just in gender politics but as their knowledge of Japanese too. Sure, maybe we can throw them a bone as if atashi could be seen as something not strictly feminine (if you squint really hard, but I think anyone would be hard pressed to find any standard of atashi being used by men outside of the "okama" and other such stereotypes), but people overlooking this very specific spelling of "kyoudai" broadcasts their lack of insight quite clearly. I, personally, may not jump to change the pronouns on Alluka's page because of that, but I'd support anyone such as yourself to do so with the argument you've built. I hope you get to hear back from at least MrGenial11 soon and get everything sorted out. Mountaintimber (talk) 23:06, September 30, 2016 (UTC)
Wow what a mess, first off I see that OPN did apologize in that thread before even knowing that you reported him (according to him on Pigzillon's talk page) for what you consider offensive about what he said, so take that as you will, also you really need to calm down and let the disputes be settled by the people concerned inside the wiki, bringing outsiders who know nothing about the topic at hand isn't gonna help your case, we're here for a reason. I don't think OPN meant any ill will towards you personally by anything he said, he probably didn't even know you were a transgender person in the first place so there really is no need to take it that far, if OPN wants to state his beliefs regarding genders, religions and whatever he's talking about, he's free to do so and you're free to state your disagreement to his ideology, in a respectful manner by both parties of course though probably not in the thread for Alluka's gender, that thread got seriously derailed... I know that he used some rather harsh words which he did apologize for and I hope that both of you act more respectful towards each other from now on and that you don't overract the way you did today. Also no need to question why OPN locked the Alluka page, there's currently quite the debate going on regarding that page, we can't just let conflicting edit wars ensue endlessly, it will be unlocked when all this is settled.
"He has badgered members of the wikia for information about themselves that they repeatedly stated they did not wish to disclose"
I'm not sure what you're referring to here?
As for Alluka, we've used a male pronoun in the past and got flak for it apparently, so it's gender neutral now, but since in the source material Alluka wants to be identified as a female (?), maybe we should change the pronouns to be female or maybe just keep our current neutral state, but I'm all against assigning a biological gender, she could be actually just be a straight up female and not a transgender, that could very well be the case. I would love to see our Bureaucrat's opinion on the matter, too bad she doesn't seem to be here at the moment. MrGenial11 (talk) 01:28, October 1, 2016 (UTC)
Hello! I know I have been busy lately that I do not have enough time to address everyone's concerns in the wiki, but I want you to know that I have read your "text-heavy" statement regarding Alluka's gender.
You have made your points, though I agree with your reasoning, this would have to be discussed by me and MrGenial (and maybe OPN if he's interested). Afterwards, when the admins have come to decision, then we'll announce it to the community, particularly in a separate forum than the current one we have.
- You're welcome! If this gets approved, I myself would do all the changes in Alluka's page. 02:20,10/17/2016
Reply to message
First off thank you for your honest and open message, personally I think your just misguided on a few things and that your probably are a very nice person
Secondly this is not a safe space, there is an old saying which goes like this: Stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt. No matter how words are used, words even slurs are just words and words are wind, it shows maturity (something we could both need a little bit more off) if words can’t hurt you. I sympathize with you past but I personally had to overcome this too for my real name (Emiel) rhymes in my language (Dutch) with a whole host of insults (idiot, homophile, pedophile etc.) and I had to learn to grow thick skin and not to be bothered by people namecalling me, insulting me or slurring me. Because for me that helped them to go away. For me the line lies with physical violence.
Thirdly I think it is important to state that offense is never given only taken.
Fourthly we had a whole host of people who just like you seemed to only join the wikia to bring up the issues of Alluka, without doing anything else and behaving quite similar to you by quickly calling people transphobic. One even went so far as to vandalize several other wikias I am active on for me disagreeing with them. So yeah I was overly angry and annoyed at you for being the next person who again brings up the Alluka issue when it had been discussed at nauseam. So you are right I am very dismissive of you for it. Because for me there is no conclusive evidence to state that both Alluka and Nanika consider themselves females.
So finally I still view we have to have this issue spelled out in the manga in clear none vague terms, that they are both female or lazy togashi has to confirm it himself. But for now I will leave the matter up to Dark to decide, whatever she decides will have my blessing. OnePieceNation (talk) 17:07, October 19, 2016 (UTC)
I'm so sorry to hear that your Grandfather passed away. My deepest condolences to you, your family, and all of the friends who knew him.
You're welcome, I know all too well how painful it is too lose someone.
Since Alluka obviously prefers a female pronoun hence we now change the wiki page to reflect that.
And to a much lesser extent, Kite too, seeing that Kite had a alternating use of musculine and feminine pronouns during their conversations between Koala and Gon."I Want a Stand" by me (talk) 10:21, October 22, 2016 (UTC)
I've noticed you requested my input on your translations. I am glad to give it, just give a link to the document. I should warn you that I'm not the greatest at Japanese (and I've been particularly rusty these last few months as I haven't been into anime/manga). Also, you referred to me as "they"; I am aware of your stance on the Alluka issue, but you may refer to me as "he". DinoTaur 02:31, October 30, 2016 (UTC)
I've logged in yesterday for the first time in months, and I've read (part of) your essay. Congrats for your hard work and contributions to Alluka's page! Martialmaniac (talk) 19:09, October 31, 2016 (UTC)
Unlocking Killua's page
I am currently talking about it with Hiatus again in the discussion on Aiko. What I've said - and will keep repeating - is that I don't think the timeline age takes precedence over the official one; also, as far as I am concerned, I have consented to move all indications of Gon and Killua's timeline age to the Trivia section, provided we change a few things on other pages for coherence (I wrote what in OPN's blog). However, since no admin has been notified after one of them reached a decision and another locked the page, I can't change it without consulting with them. I was hoping they'd read the discussion, because, as you can tell by my talk page, I've already been quite a pain in the ass, excuse my French. Martialmaniac (talk) 00:50, February 15, 2017 (UTC)
It's hiatus for everyone, I guess. MrGenial did come back, but I'm a bit upset at OPN for locking the page and nothing else. I would have to give some thought about removing the year of birth, since it precedes the timeline inconsistencies. Also, I'd say that the only thing we can say for sure is that Gon's age was 12 at the time of the Election Arc, but we can't tell for sure if it's "current". Martialmaniac (talk) 02:04, February 15, 2017 (UTC)
I think you definitely get the sense that it's not exactly canon, also due to it being in the Trivia. However, I would sepcify that according to the (re)constructed timeline, Gon should be 14 by the Dark Continent arc, and 13 by the Chairman Election arc, which however contradicts the manga. If we add the latter, then it's not necessary to specify it hasn't been stated, because we already highlight the fact it's a contradiction/counter-reading.
I would structure it along the lines of "Despite Gon's stated age, according to the reconstructed timeline of the series, he should have been 13 during the Chairman Election Arc. Since one more year has passed since then, as demonstrated by the recurrence of a date (August 8th), the presence of a Hunter Exam, and Mizaistom's dialogue with Beyond, Gon should currently be 14, overlooking the above-mentioned inconsistency." Of course, all of this written decently, this is just something I pieced together while making lunch. Martialmaniac (talk) 12:25, February 15, 2017 (UTC)
Quick question: I have seen the discussion on Kite's talk page. If he uses both "ore" (by tthe way, why is it written in katakana?) and "atashi", shouldn't we use "they" pronouns? I'm asking this (and currently using a masculine pronoun) because I interpreted the dialogues the opposite way. When Kite was talking to Koala, he was being addressed as and speaking for the girl Koala had killed, and it's unclear if he used that pronoun only for his sake. So, since he used both a masculine and a feminine pronoun, shouldn't his gender be unknown? Martialmaniac (talk) 09:24, February 25, 2017 (UTC)
I agree. While I do think Kite still regards himself as being male, if he cares at all, the version with the least amount of speculation is probably "they". Just a clarification: if I recall correctly, and please correct me if I don't, Gon had not spoken to Kite yet when he met Ging, so the fact that Kite had become a girl was something he'd been told by Morel, who was on the phone with Colt. It's only natural they would speak about Kite/Reina's sex, also considering Morel found out about it when Kite was still behaving childishly (and thus had not recovered his identity). Martialmaniac (talk) 09:56, February 25, 2017 (UTC)
Ok, I really need an archive for older discussions. Anyway, should I suggest we do that on Kite's talk page? I understand the detail is significant, but the amount of information available to characters also matters, in my opinion. Also, what pronouns did Ging use to refer to Kite after learning he ha dbecome a girl? Regardless of that, it's difficult to understand whether we should consider them an actual hint or only a habit of Ging's (if he uses masculine pronouns)/a reaction to the news (if he uses feminine ones). Furthermore, the fact it's a narrative means it unfolds through time, so more recent information may (or may not) be mor eimportant... but yeah, it's nitpicking and speculation. Martialmaniac (talk) 11:32, February 25, 2017 (UTC)
I've added our main contention to Kite's talk page, let's see if anyone replies or if a blog post will be necessary.
I've always been thinking about the Nen types of Hatsu abilities. I would agree to either remove the caption completely (the one above the image) or to list there only those Nen types about which there isn't the slightest shade of doubt, or to add a specific tag for when a citation is missing. However, since we have some knowledge of the system, I'd like to maintain certain things, although pointing out that they are hypothetical. I'll make three examples:
- The first is Cookie-chan. Biscuit said she uses Transmutation, so that's confirmed. Now, I believe Cookie is emitted, but we cannot leave out the possibility that it's conjured. However, even though she doesn't say it, it's clear that she uses Manipulation, from what we know of the Nen system. So my suggestion would be to either leave only "Transmutation" in the "Nen Type" part or to remove it entirely, but adding to the description of the ability that Manipulation is also used, as well as that Cookie-chan could be either conjured or emitted.
- Look at Zeno's abilities. What do you think of them? The reason why the first two are listed as Transmutation is that Biscuit has shown that altering the shape of aura while it is still attached to the body is a Transmutation ability, and Zeno does precisely that. And although he never speaks of Emission, Dragon Dive is separated from his body, so it's pretty obvious he's using that Nen type as well. Would you be comfortable with leaving them in the description, or even in the "Nen type" box?
- Shalnark's Autopilot. Whether we decide to leave only Manipulation in the box or remove it, I'm in favor of highlighting the similarity of the ability with Enhancement techniques, suggesting that Nen type may also be used.
Nen type designations
Too long XD Ok, you said "I wouldn't disagree with 'it is possible that [technique] uses [nen type]'", and that is precisely what I was suggetsing, so, that's cool.
Let's start with Emission in general: the exercise Biscuit has Gon practice consist simply in him separating aura from his body and sending it in a certain direction. We can determine that separating aura from one's body is an Emission ability.
Zeno/Transmutation and Emission: The descriptions of Hisoka's Bungee Gum (possibly) and Machi's threads say that the durability of the two abilities drop when they are separated from the user's body, ergo Transmutation abilities require direct contact with the user to operate at full strength; and since the act of separating aura from th ebody is already an Emission ability, that means Emission is used in those cases.
Biscuit: Cookie is separated from Biscuit's body. Unless it is conjured, Emission must be used. Now, Transmutation should be able to give aura the properties of a certain substance, and "person" shouldn't be one; I understand your reasoning, since nothing is confirmed, we cannot rule out the possibility altogether, but I'd suggest the chance Biscuit uses Manipulation be mentioned nonetheless.
Goreinu: Again: aura separate dfrom his body, and Razor reflects about how the two gorillas are controlled. Also, isn't the designation "Nen beast" used more than once to refer to combinations of Emission and Manipulation?
We could be talking moving humanity to Mars here, but I was contemplating the idea of making a video about Togashi's use of queercoding in Hunter x Hunter, during which I might also touch on the matter of gender RE: Alluka and Kite. If that ever were to happen, I was wondering if I could mention you and your essay, since, despite all the mistakes I have made and still make, you and Mountaintimber have been two of the main reasons I transitioned from one or more stances that could legitimately be interpreted as transphobic to... one I hope is not. It's not just about Alluka and wikia clarity, of course, that exchange, as painful as it must have been for you, helped me understand something I knew nothing of a little better, and it's shocking to me that I may have never told you this before. If I do ever end up making the video, I do not want to hide the fact that I espoused views that it would be far too euphemistic to define "problematic", and since not only your research, but also your conduct and the way you shared and defended your ideas were inspirational, I would love to be able to mention you, though I perfectly understand if you see it as a sterile gesture and validation you don't need. Martialmaniac (talk) 15:44, January 3, 2020 (UTC)
I may have tried to do that and defend my ego from your rightful criticism on many occasions (including referencing - going to uni really changes your perspective on that). One of the issues of teens having access to the internet and interacting with people more aware than they are. Heck, I'll fuck up soon again in all likelihood. But as little as you may care - and perhaps this is more important for me than it is for you - is the fact that a minor battle over representation actually led to peopel changing their mind and behavior, and you should take credit for that, even as it does not feel like a victory. Martialmaniac (talk) 13:40, January 5, 2020 (UTC)